Friends, Family & Carers Forum

[Jane9]

I would like to hear from others. My ill father recently told me that his wife, not my mum, has organised power of attorney with her son's instead of him because he's cognitively in decline. It makes sense to him but he still feels left out of the loop as they didn't talk to him beforehand or show him documents. Likewise, my partner of nearly 4 years is extremely reluctant to include me on her medical power of attorney though she is very happy to put me on financial power of attorney . I have no such cognitive issues like my dad.. Instead she has her sister and best friend noted down. I can't bear the thought of being unable to talk with her treating psychiatrist about her health if she goes into hospital again. This is the role of a partner. I understand that she trusts her friend and sister who helped her before we met but it seems antithetical to our current attempts to create a committed relationship to not be at least one of two apppointed people. I feel frustrated and unhappy to feel untrusted. She says it's about my need to be included not her need to make her own decision and while I can see her point of view and her terrifying fear of being controlled in a potentially vulnerable situation, I think it's more'our' need as a couple. I question how committed we are if there's not enough trust for this.

It feels like other couples without mental illness in the mix would do this. Again I'm left feeling that my attempts to treat this relationship the same as previous committed relationships, instead of falling into a carer/patient dynamic, is taking us nowhere. We are planning on moving into a new place together . For nearly 3 years I've reluctantly lived in her (safe) place and she wants to formalise our relationship but this medical power of attorney is a sticking point. Am I overreacting? We have gone to couple therapy and will go again but I'd like to know if other carers would accept this situation.

I've been away for 5 weeks trying to sort out a few things in my head and have come back with renewed investment in the relationship but this just brings me back to square one again. It's like treading water to not be able to talk about a future, make plans, organise power of attomey and wills and move into neutral house territory, all because of my partners fears. We're both middle aged and she has bipolar with other associated issues but wants this relationship to work even more than me , just can't bring herself to talk about what I consider normal rekationship development steps . Help please!.....Jane

[Lunar]

Hello @Jane9,

It sounds like you are very supportive of your partners decisions in regards to medical power of attorney and wanting her family to have that rather than yourself but it is highlighting some concerns about your future together.

You mentioned that you feel as though there is not just this but some other things that your partner has enabled that leave you feeling uncertain about your future together. Do you feel as though if you were medical power of attorney and lived together your future as a couple would be secure and long lasting?

Perhaps in your next session you could work through what aspects of a relationship make you feel secure and positive about the future and going over that. Everyone has ideas about what behaviours, gifts, objects, experiences and interactions provide a future of security together, what are yours?

Lunar 🙂

[BeHappy]

Hi @Jane9,

You mentioned that it seems like your partner doesn't trust you. While I can see your point, your partner may not view it this way. Neither one of you is right nor wrong, it's just two different view points (and hence the conflict). It sounds like your partner sees this as something that they want to make a decision for, on your side you feel like it's a matter of distrust.

Remember, people's actions can mean different things for people. It's important that you both listen and understand their motivations behind their actions. I wonder what it means for her to appoint her sister and friend. Perhaps there is a level of comfort with people (whom she has know for a long time) whom she knows shares similar opions and views in terms of medical treatment?

It might be helpful to ask your partner if she trusts you. If they do, I wonder how else they might show you and behave in a way that shows you that they trust you. I think moving in together shows a level of trust - it means that you will need to depend on each other and trust that the other is reliable in many areas of life (financial, emotional, domestic life, social life and so on).

[CherryBomb]

Hi @Jane9

Some great points raised by @BeHappy and @Lunar. 

I'm just going to mention @Faith-and-Hope who has a partner with a MI. She might be able to give some relationship advice. I've also seen @querentxyz and @pip give great relationship advice around the Forums. I wonder if they might have something to add. 

You mentioned that you want to achieve the 'normal' stages of a relationships. I'm not sure what normal is, but is might be helpful to look into what are the signs of a health relationship.

[Faith-and-Hope]

Hi Jane9 ....

I am in and out of wifi where I am at the moment .... will get back to you a bit later, but just wanted to let you know I have heard you ....

Take care. Chat soon.

🌷💜

[Jane9]

Thanks all, I have muddied the water with all the other info. The main point is that I want to be able to talk to the treating psychiatrist if and when my partner is hospitalised again.

I do not want to have to ask a friend what's happening to my partner or to contact the psychiatrist for me if she's in hospital. I do not expect nor want to make decisions about her treatment once ages hospitalised, just to be informed.

She trusts me wholeheartedly in all other aspects of our relationship and is cknoletelh open to financial per of attorney but fears that I could agree to ECT or call in the CAT team, despite reassurances that I would be her support and advocate for her wishes even if I disagreed. In reality however I would likely be very torn if recommended treatment was against her wishes when ECT has come a long way and her fear of the CAT team could delay neessary help. There's a duty of care. I guess I've just answered my own question. And explained why she is reluctant to have me in that situation.

I've now decided to take a different tack and will ask if I could be on limited pwr of attorney only for access to information not for decision making once she's hospitalised.

However, Last time she was unwell and potentially becoming psychotic I called the CAT team as I was interstate , only for advice. I resisted their strong attempts to get her details and/or call her psychiatrist. Afterwards she was angry that I even called them. I felt trapped between honouring her wishes and providing necessary info for CAT team duty of care when her sister and I couldn't get hold of her psychiatrist or GP. This time a crisis was luckily averted and she didn't need hospitalisation but it could have been worse than it was. She lives (we live) with long term bipolar with other elements

. I'm hoping someone might have had to face this situation themselves and have some personal reflections. I dont like feeling hamstrung. That's probably more it than feeling shafted of excluded.

[Faith-and-Hope]

Hi @Jane9 ....

Been there, done that, in a different form ....

Hubby with a hidden eating disorder, way in denial .... think I could talk to the family doctor about it ?  Intervention was taken against me .... !!

He lost weight under the care of the doc, but what the doc didn't lpknow was how extreme WH (Wayward Husband) had taken it and how it was tearing into our family relationships .... I didn't realise that it is classified as an mi until all the emotional abuse and deliusional thinking arrived, along with personality and values changes .... Arghhhh ..... !!

I have had to juggle the mental health of a large family around him, ringing bells and clashing cymbals trying to wake him up at first, and tried so hard to flag down medical assistance .... was yelling into a paper bag for all it was worth.

WH was furious with me trying to sabotage his "success" and I have had to learn to (excruciatingly) sit on my hands and wait for some sort of fall-out .... under law the doc doesn't have to speak to or listen to me.  In our state, we have no counselling support for the family without a diagnosis ..... stalemate !

Trying to unmask him just caused WH to separate from me .... in the same house .... for a week .... till I argued him down out of that tree, but we have become house-mates and parents to our children rather than husband and wife ....

For the moment ....

There are no easy answers.  We want what is best for those we love, but there are very difficult choices and balances to keep in regard to mental illness / well-being ..... and at the end of the day, we can only do our best, as I can hear you have ....

I reckon I would have made the same choices in your shoes, and the modified power of attorney sounds like the best solution under the circumstances ....

Take courage, and seek solace here ..... wonderful people .... compassionate caring support ....

🌷💜

[Smc]

@Jane9- One alternative rather than Power of Attorney is to ask your partner whether she'd be happy to list you as either "next of kin" or "permitted to enquire' with the hospital system. It doesn't give the broad umbrella tha POA is designed for, and you may have to be noted at multiple sources- her doctor, hospital, possibly mental health unit. If she has the freedom to give permission or withdraw it without complex legalities involved, would she feel more secure about doing so?

It's that tricky point where a lot of MIs are exacerbated by feeling out of control, and yet the person in question is likely to have times when there's no option but to hand control to someone else (family member or professional), and her reluctance to have you as POA may more reflect her need for the security of having some control than a lack of trust in you. Or maybe even a reluctance to have you cast as the "controller", because it's hard to have a loving relationship with the person who can "hit the remote".

[Jane9]

Thanks smc, that is great advice and exactly what I was looking for! and hadn't considered. I will explore those options with my partner (and professional services) and leave legalities alone , hopefully giving her piece of mind about control fears.

[Jane9]

Thank you Faith and hope. Ive followed your story and hear how frustrating it is to be unable to talk directly with health professionals when your husband is reluctant to agree to involve you. Thanks for sharing and your kind words of encouragement. You're right about this forum