Honesty

[kenny66]

Sorry Jake

I didn't mean to misunderstand your disorder and misname it. Ive got it now. Yes, I just say what I think, opinion wise as well, and really don't care if it doesn't conform to someone else's views. Although a lot of the time mine may not be as sensible or logical as yours!!!! It looks like you find the psychotherapy of benefit. On the whole though, does the personality disorder allow you to still have an optimistic view of life if you can remove yourself from your triggers. "Allows you" is probably the wrong term. By that I mean are you able to manage it so that you have a good quality of life.

[Alessandra1992]

True we all are a bit if both, but when my workplace paid for .the whole organisation to undergo it..very interesting indeed! We had a geographical skew as well as my Melbourne colleague and I were both very extroverted, and our nsw colleagues were skewed strongly to introversion. So it explained why I experienced some difficulty in working with some of them, I quickly learned email is a strong point for working effectively as my nsw colleagues liked to have time to think, pause and reflect before responding to my queries or replies. I was then able to take some of the MBTI with me in other work spheres. Very helpful to work with people's preferred communication styles and often people don't mention their preferred style of working. So I ask, do you prefer email, phone call, gotomeeting (can be a bit of both) or even texting? I am fine with asking and nowadays most people are fine with answering too, saves a whole lot of angst in the long term.
In terms of anxiety levels, I struggle sometimes in certain situations, especially in large groups of people. I am one of those people who hang out in the kitchens at parties as I find most people are happy to chat in the kitchen and have a bit of a yarn, than trying to talk over music or other people's conversations. Funnily enough though, lots of performers over the years that I have read profiles on in papers or or telly often struggled with introversion. The beauty of the internet is you can join a community and be free to be yourself..

[Jake]

Hi Kenny,

Don't worry, it's not a problem, you can ask me anything, even to qualify my statements. Yes I need psychotherapy, I have no other social outlet, except a church that I attend weekly (but that is a whole new topic for another post!). 

Good question about quality of life - you see Kenny I am torn between wanting/needing social interaction (on the whole a normal human trait) and being triggered by people. People (not all) are my trigger, or rather, their (dysfunctional) behaviours - the context for this discussion is always 'dysfunctional behaviour').

I'll just qualify that for you - some people in society don't realise that their actions (dysfunctional behaviours - e.g. from a previous post - telling me what I need instead of asking me what I want) can affect other people. They either don't care or are not aware (gosh - that's black & white thinking isn't it??).

Ok, I'll 'own it' - I am very sensitive to being mistreated by people, intentionally or otherwise, then after 'putting up with it' for a while (when it's obvious to me their behaviour is not going to change) I either say something (to try to get them to change their behaviour) or remove myself completely from the trigger (the person's behaviour).

After all, fair is fair, why should there be 2 sets of rules - 'rules for some' and 'rules for others' (that's my idealism coming out). If my behaviour  affects anyone else, I am prepared to change it. Yes I 'know what you are thinking' - but not everyone is aware of their behaviour - well I just made them aware of it!

And what do you think the outcome of that is (mainly) when I speak out? Yep - that's just 'Jake', he is too sensitive, (shock! horror!). Sensitivity in my opinion, is a good character trait - more people should have it!)

(Rhetorical thinking) - 'it couldn't be anything we have done', because - (wait for it!) - 'no-one else has said anything'! So they play the psychological game called - 'Shoot The Messenger' (Google it) - the one that speaks out (over say 'injustice' or 'inequality') is then blamed, rather than addressing the actual cause for concern - their behaviour. (end of rant!)

Regards, Jake

[Jake]

Hi Alessandra,

Thanks for your reply, you make a good point about communication preferences - I am definitely an email person, the phone is 'real time' and I find I need time to think and respond (it triggers my anxiety too much). I also have what some might call a 'low frustration tolerance', so I'm not one to 'suffer fools gladly'!

Yes, you'd think performers were all extroverts, not me, I'd prefer to be the one you'd be talking to in the kitchen! Lol!

BTW, on MBTI, I am 'INFJ' - yep I'm in the lowest grouping in society for males with that personality type - 1% to 3% if I remember the distribution correctly.

Bit of a niche club! Lol!

Regards, Jake

[kristin]

Hi Jake,

I can really relate to a lot of what you say here. (A few months ago I had to leave the church I was going to, but as you said - a whole 'nother story!)

I also tend to be honest with people, I also take the time to weed out my own issues first (as much as that is humanly posible), and i try to be very diplomatic and genlte. The reaction by and large is extreme defensiveness, and as you say "shoot the messenger". I try to listen when someone says "you upset me" (or whatever), even when they aren't being diplomatic. You can learn a lot about yourself and others when you listen to honest feedback, even when it's painful to hear. If I've hurt someone, even if my intention was to help, I sit with it for a bit (warning them I need to do so, lest they think I'm ignoring them) and try to put myself in their shoes and respond to their hurt from that space. The answer is always "I'm sorry" as well as trying to explain what I was trying to do to help. I know my response is unusual, and not to look for it from others in response to my hurt.

I'm beginning to have a rather more nuanced perspective on "the road to hell is paved with good intentions". Many people think good intentions are enough (and they are important), or even all that matters (unless it's them that's hurt).

Like you I am a regular pychotherapy user, and it is a necessity for me. If I go to therapy once a week (or at least once a fortnight if I'm very well) then I process some of the backlog of trauma and my wellness and ability to function are improved. It's a bit like going to the gym really. However if I don't go regularly then once things start going pear-shaped, which happens in life, I start putting the things I can't deal with in a box in the back of my mind so I can function today for my family. The more full the box gets the sicker I get - usually depressed, sometimes severely. So I work on being well. 🙂

You mentioned extreme sensitivity, and being triggered by people, which I can also relate to. I'm a little less so these days, but some people I find I avoid like the plague for a long time. Reading what you said it occurred to me that you, and others, might be interested in this site http://www.hsperson.com/.

Re MBTI: I never found it helpful to me, I guess even 25 years ago I objected to being put in a box. But my biggest objection was that it gave me no help whatsoever in working out which direction to work in to grow towards wholeness as a person (which is what I'm most interested in). About 15 years ago I found something that works on personality types which does offer suggestions about which way to grow - it's called Enneagram (and it is very ancient too)  http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/intro.asp#.U-scQvmSyww

Best regards,

Kristin

[Alessandra1992]

Hi Jake,
I was an entp and my Melbourne colleague was an entj. The NSW were skewed to infj's and intp's . I think our overall manager was an ensj. It was quite incredible as there were 3 in the en and 9 in's..
So quite a mix, and soo much easier to work with each other when we all got together and were able to go "aha..you prefer to pickup the phone, and we prefer email" ..
Having worked in telemarketing in my saving money to travel days I am definitely not a person to ring between 6-7 pm...speaking of not suffering fools lightly, some of the energy companies and phone companies really do not like "no thanks, I am not interested.". So I don't answer the phone (landline) and if I really want a bit of down time, I unplug from the socket...my friends know they can reach me on my mobile. 😄 or email😄

[chemonro]

I'm a sulky, moody infp... 

[Alessandra1992]

Well Che, perception is the art of seeing. I thought your profile picture has an expression of pensive awareness. Looking thoughtfully at the world..but on closer inspection, clearly infp. 😄😄

[Alessandra1992]

Honesty is vital to a community's growth. Conflict often occurs when we cause society and people to think. People don't like being challenged about their attitudes..or their speech but I think it is vital we keep speaking and challenging our community to think beyond MI as a stereotype and we need to keep working on reducing the stigma around becoming unwell, getting help and having active choices in our own recovery. it. We are all of equal value..I am hopeful that forums like this are reducing stigma and showing our community that we are owning this space for ourselves..

[Jake]

Hi Alessandra,

Well said, in my experience, some people would rather entertain a lie than deal with the truth. Truth can be too confronting for some people, so they 'water it down' to make it more palatable,

For example, one of our band members used to come to rehearsals smelling of grog - he then became illogical in his thinking (just one of the symptoms of his behaviour for this example).

If the subject was raised (by myself) his peers would make excuses for him like "he drinks too much" or "he's had a few tonight" but his behaviour (as indicated by his smelly breath) went on for years (and is probably still going on).

The truth is - he is an alcoholic (according to the objective definition of an alcoholic).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_dependence

I try to use objective terminology, as sometimes people throw it back at me and make it subjective (in other words - 'that's just your opinion Jake').

The extension to the truth is - he has a clinically diagnosable mental illness - but that is too much for his peers/friends/family to process, so it all goes back to - "he's had a few tonight" - much easier to digest than the truth..............(after all we don;t want to offend him do we? - sorry about the sarcasm - doesn't matter if he has offended anyone else by coming to music rehearsals drunk!!)

In my experience, people would rather make excuses for their friends/families behaviour than deal with the the truth.

The truth is, anyone who admits to having a MI gets 10/10 in my book!

Regards, Jake