Not sure, came under heading of Dambuster.

[pip]

Hi guys.  Need a bit of guidance.  My 48 y.o daughter has recently started drinking heavily.  I am in recovery from alcoholism.  I do have a bf, he lives interstate, daughter has never met him, but used to email him for guidance when I was sick.  I suffered severe depression following a suicide attempt that nearly claimed me.  My daughter has become friendly with a female she works with who is older than her.  She has recently started emailing my bf trying to force this female on him.  He has been ignoring her, trying to be pleasant.  Daughter and friend arrived at my home yesterday, drunk.  They both took extreme pleasure in informing me that friend of daughters is planning to get together with my bf after Christmas.  I realize she is lying, but that doesn't help.  Daughter is going to N.Z for Christmas, originally she was going with her hubby, he has left her, so this new friend is taking his place.  Bf is aware of all this, I think he realizes how this has hurt me.  He keeps advising me to ignore, but it's hard to ignore when it's your kid.  My son also now knows, initially I wasn't going to say anything to him.  After yesterday, I had no choice.  My son basically advised to ignore, DIL said similar.  I am trying to, but this hurts as my daughter is lashing out to hurt me as I hurt her when I was drinking.  I have no doubts of my bf's sincereity, but what to do, how to deal with this.  I suggested to my son that perhaps if my bf told her exactly where we stand as a couple, son reckons that could add fuel.  Son seems to think, no matter what bf or anyone says she will turn it round and it will backlash on me.  Thier father is dead, he died when daughter was 6, son was 2.  Bf is aware there is no father.  My ex would be useless.  None of my kids liked him, so they wouldnt talk to him.  He would also no doubt label my daughter, this she doesn't need.   I know she needs help, but like most peopel who suffer depression/alcoholism or any other MI, till she asks for help, she won't accept she needs it.   Help 

[Appleblossom]

Hello @pip

I lost my father young like your daughter and can identify with her on some grounds, but have never been a drinker. You are being very thoughtful and understanding about this, but I believe you need to a draw a very clear line about abusive behaviour.  I am looking forward to the forum boundary night on Tues 22nd Nov.

This could be in all of your best interests. Fess up as I guess you already have about your lashing out and make some amends. However to allow it to become a point where she feels justified in abusing you in endless retaliation, whether it be by undermining relationships or whatever .. will probably have longterm bad effects for her and everyone associated with both of you.

My tuppence worth is:

Say Sorry, Tell her you love her. Call a truce ... Defend yourself .. Tell her you are well defended .. and will drop the walls if she genuinely wants a good relationship with you, but zero tolerance here on in for manipulative behaviour with relationships which can be even more destructive as straight out violence or abuse.

Mind you I have tried this with my daughter and she has cut me off. It is sad as my poor daughter was used as the weapon to deliver pain to me in the family feuds.  As I barely escaped with my life I felt had no choice.

We cant control them nor should they control us .. I have tried submitting and letting people do that to me to keep bein in relationship .. but it is not worth it.

It seems trinities can be productive but triangles torturous.

 Take care. Congrats on staying off the grog.

[pip]

@Appleblossom. At this particular point there is no point in calling a truce. While she remains friends with this other person, she is going to hang onto her words. I think she feels justified in whatever her toxic actions are. In some ways her lashing out is understandable, but I don't have to tolerate her endless abuse. She repeatedly told my bf I was unable to leave the booze alone, thankfully, he knows this is untrue. He also realizes she is being 'controlled' by this other person. Atm, too this other person 'feeds' her anger, so together one compliments the other. I have had my DIL call this afternoon and we discussed it at length. We have agreed that eventually, my daughter will tire of this as she isn't really a 'party' animal. Once she realizes her abuse is literally falling on deaf ears, she will cease this harangument and hopefully return to being my daughter. My daughter is actually a very caring, loving girl who was there for me when I was suicidal, so I have subjected her to a lot. Maybe this is her way of releasing her anxiety. Whether she will be able to carry on for much longer remains to be seen. Thanks for your support and reply.

[pip]

Hi @Appleblossom. I also emailed my bf and admitted to feeling a bit jealous over my daughter's friend 'supposedly' linking up with him. I know this would never happen, but I guess when some strange woman threatens to get together with someone you're close to, in this case your bf, we women tend to get a bit agro. Hopefully, bf will understand, hopefully, also he won't mention about it. I guess we'll just have to 'wait it out'. My daughter, as I said, is not a 'party animal' so she will eventually tire and want her life back. My DIL is wonderfully supportive and said she would come if necessary. I'm okay, although just wish my daughter hadn't met this toxic female. She tended to be a bit 'easily led' as a teen, but I thought she had grown up.

[Appleblossom]

Sounds like you are very wise.  Take care. I didnt realise the older friend was running it. Intensities between mother and daughter are not something to mess with.

[utopia]

@pip. G is not the type of man who would stray. He sounds like the monogamous type. And he is not the type to get tricked by some sick womans idea of fun.
As to your daughter. If she has been drinking - you have the right to ban her from your house. And I think it may be necessary when you have only been dry for a year.
It doesn't matter what may have gone on in your relationship with your children in the past - your daughter has no right to disrespect you in your own home. Nor does she have the right to let a 'friend' treat you with disrespect.
Next time she shows up drunk. Tell her she can't come in because she is drunk. And then let her know you would be happy for her to come around when she hasn't been drinking.
An addict or not - she still needs boundaries - & you need to put your mental health first.

[pip]

@utopia. Thanks for that. I couldn't agree more. I actually told my son because I was so shaken. I completely trust G and have no fears about him. Evidently my daughter had emailed him regarding this woman and he politely said 'thanks, but, no thanks'. He is trying to be calm about it and told me he is not fazed by her behaviour. He told her he has decided to stay with me, you can't reason with someone who's drunk. My DIL called round yesterday to see how I got on at the cancer clinic, she was tickled pink all is well there too. We discussed my feelings about my daughter's behaviour and she said admitting jealousy over this was normal. She said if her hubby (my son) was put in a similar situation, (she doesn't think for one minute he would be tempted either), but she said it would still hurt. I wrote and explained to G that momentarily I was a bit jealous, but I played it down and just said we females are a bit like that. DIL saw the email and said the way I'd worded it was acceptable. I also said in the email to G that by now he was probably used to me. I haven't heard back, but I know he has been busy. I think if daughter returns I will tell her she is unwelcome, but instead of allowing her to hurt me, I will just pretend to agree with everything. If I go along, she has no comeback. The more I allow her to hurt me and she knows she has hurt me, the more she will continue. G said he'd picked up she has some unresolved issues regarding her father's suicide, my attempt (which did shake both my kids and their spouses) my alcoholism etc. She needs help, but till she admits, we could be in for a bumpy ride. A long time ago, before we became a confirmed bf/gf relationship, G gave me some strategies for dealing with stress, which jealousy comes under. When this started with daughter, I 'heard' his voice reminding me of these strategies. Because of this and me being able to process clearly, once she had gone, -yes, I was shaken, but not as much as I used to get. I actually sat down, closed my eyes and 'listened' to G. There was a time when he couldn't do that because I had so much happening, so many toxic people telling me to 'get over it', snap out of it' etc. Now that there is no distractions, I 'hear' G clearly and it calms me and he leads me back. I told him that too. I used to continuously apologize for how I felt and G told me very firmly to 'stop apologizing'. He said when you are feeling depressed the thought processes go 'haywire'. He told me there is never reason to fear he will ever hurt me. He is simply not that sort of person. I never feared nor doubted him over this, but I was momentarily shaken. DIL said she was sure he'd realize this.

[utopia]

@pip. How fantastic that you heard G speaking to you and that helped. He does sound like a wise and kind man.
And it must have been good to hear your son and dil say your daughters behavior was not right. And have yiur dil - confirm your feelings were normal.
No there is no reasoning witb someone drunk.
I hang up on my sister often when she drunk calls. She knows I won't put up with it. So it rarely happens now.
Your daughter will learn. And when she's ready - she will need your help with her MI & drinking. Until then, look after yourself. You need to build up your strength for when that time comez.
Well done.
I hope your day goes well today. Think you deserve a treat.

[pip]

@utopia. It is a good feeling to know G is part of my life. I was raised in a very toxic family, alcoholic, narc father, non-caring, emotionally abusive mother etc. So I had no actual live-in male role model to guide me. I did have 3 fantastic uncles that sort of gave me an idea what I wanted in a potential life partner. Unfortunately however, I did make 3 disastrous mistakes due largely to the fact that even though my uncles helped guide me, the fact that I did not live with them permanently meant I was still confused about men. Since he has been involved in my life, I have realized I am worthy of a decent male in my life. My ex was raised by a chauvinistic father who stripped his mother of her ability to make decisions by repeatedly telling her (in company) that she was wrong, she didn't now what she was talking about etc. Consequently the father then told anyone who would listen that his wife was a very negative person. Hardly surprising that she would believe this when she is told repeatedly that basically she doesn't know what she is talking about. No-one has the right to repeatedly undermine someone else publicly. My ex wasn't quite that bad, but he wasn't able to help me emotionally because he didn't know how to, his father had not been a good male role model. G, on the other hand, because he has 'been there, done that', was able to successfully guide me through the 'darkness' that surrounded me and help me think clearly by explaining that depression was clouding my thoughts. Once the depression lifted - again with his help, I started thinking clearly. He actually told me my daughter was drunk and extremely abusive toward me. He said if she rang (she didn't, she just arrived without warning). G said if she rang to hang up as her words would hurt me. He was terribly concerned because he knows I am in the process of training for my new job and I need this like a migraine. I am over her crap and thinking clearly. I am concerned, about her, but I'm not allowing her to undo what I've achieved as far as being 'dry'.

[utopia]

That sounds like you're doing the right thing for you @pip.
Hang up if she calls.
Close the door on her if she shows up drunk.
You come first.