Crying

[Appleblossom]

Thanks @Former-Member for the retrospective wish .... things are a little better now ... but I am still staggered by the amount of human suffering about today even though living standards are higher and services are both better and more available ... it must be something about the pace of modern life .. maybe .. I didnt mean "really" jealous ... I can see the situations for what they are or were .... but just thought I would express it that way as it is a common way of talking.

Dear @MoonGal You did not offend or upset me in the slightest ... I am very used to being overlooked and passed by  BY OTHERS, generally in my life, NOT YOU.

I guess if I am being honest to myself I am finally trying to get the legitimate attention I missed out on earlier in my life ... the "carefulness" in my tone was nothing about anything you said ... I REALLY APPRECIATED your posts to me, and in general. Many times I have posted peeople have skipped over the hairy details and you actually engaged with it ...so thanks .... It is more a throw back to the way I have been treated generally .... in life.

[MoonGal]

 @Appleblossom - I am glad it's all good, I just have to learn your writing 'tone', please do not feel you need to minimise yourself with me. We are all only 3 inches tall inside these adult bodies really. Dog knows I'm a wobbly fairy-child in a warriors body.

[Appleblossom]

At least you gave me a chance to clarify.. . I am not used to that either ...

and your dog knows ... cracks me up ...

I am sorry you had a hard conceiving and carrying a baby to term. I have no idea how I would respond to those challenges. You seem to have found many things to do to live a full and creative life.

my tone is a weird mix between formal and casual .. by my mother's pressures and my over developed vocab .. and an easy going .. street kind of talk ...

One of my foster fathers used to take my to the grey hounds ... and we had one in their house ... so it brings back memories to hear about them ... I guess you might not life the racing culture ???.. I have always been a "love other people's dogs" kind of person ... I get a annpoyed when I get pressured to choose between cats and dogs .. I do like them both ... and have been hurt by dumb unthinking associations that people sometimes make about them and humans ...

Robert Sapolski ... is a neuro endocrinologist who started off life as a primatologist. I am currently watching his series of 25 lectures ... Stanford have put them online for free.

my ex husband was knowing in some of the games heand his oldest played around our family dog ... the dog was supposed to be for the middle child .... anyway when I was mum in his household I was the only one who walked the family dog but after 10 years, I detached from it, tried to gather the human mammals I gave birth to, (failed with daughter) and then eventually 2 years later when settled, got 2 cats.

Partly my tone ... is because I am trying to be accurate about things and gain clarity but cos of the family complications .. I move in and out of informal and technical use of language.  its the only way I can be true to my circumstances. I had a sciencey background anyway

[MoonGal]

@Appleblossom - We have morphed this conversation that started out as ... crying ... into how we "are' in the world and that is fine, really fine with me, that is what conversations with people who are vitally intelligent and interested int he world do - they spring new thoughts and create opportunities to share knowledge and information. i love that, makes me feel less alone in the world sharing what makes my heart sing. I think a lot, and I cry almost every day (or at least 'tear up" anyway) and if crying is an example of 'emotion' in response to some thought or stimulus (or unconscious or sub-conscious thing) then we are still on track. 

I will check out Robert Sapowlsky's lectures at Stanford thanks. 

This (biology, emotion etc) reminds me of the reading I have done in my pursuit of knowledge in regards non-human animals. I have read many of the *books of Jonathan Balcombe and Marc Beckoff. Their work speaks to the biology of emotions, pleasure and shared traits that all mammals (in particular) have. I learned a lot about our place on Earth and our constructed hierarchies in regards humans at 'the top' and all other animals below. We are all wired in very similar ways, brain, CNS, reward and aversion bio-chemicals etc. I learned a lot about myself as well. 

As humans we have been deeply socialised (culture, education, religion etc) to think in certain ways. The freeing up and inclusion of non-human animals into my circle of "us" and moving away from having any sense of "them as other' has helped me be much more compassionate and inclusive in the world. Less judgemental about people too. As I am living with a few MI's I can identify at some point... that we are a bag of bio-chemicals!  And many of our responses etc are primed by our biology. 

I have always sought to understand how it is I came to be the way I am, and while my lived experience - in family, in society, in work, relationships etc have hugely influenced my personality and who I am int he world - underneath all that is an understanding and a welcome fact that this human-animal, a social-primate who reacts and acts from biological imperatives... that is also are who I "am".

_______________________________

*THE BOOKS

Marc Bekoff is a former Professor of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at the University of Colorado, Boulder, and is a Fellow of the Animal Behavior Society and a past Guggenheim Fellow

Ignoring Nature No More: The Case For Compassionate Conservation

Wild Justice: The Moral Lives of Animals

Animals Matter A Biologist Explains Why We Should Treat Animals With Compassion and Respect

The Emotional Lives of Animals

A Leading Scientist Explores Animal Joy, Sorrow, and Empathy - and Why They Matter
_________________________________
Jonathan Balcombe has three biology degrees, including a PhD in ethology (the study of animal behavior) from the University of Tennessee, 

Pleasurable Kingdom

Animals and the Nature of Feeling Good
____________________________________

[Appleblossom]

Wow

That last front cover with 2 gorgeous piggy snozzes is taking this thread way off topic

They are great references ... worth following up ... thanks ... probably a lot of overlap in the lectures I was talking about.  My free access to computers is relatively recent so I'm doing a lot of catch up ... it can be quite inspiring that there is so much good material out there ... maybe there's hope for us yet

[MoonGal]

@Appleblossom - not really off topic, I cry a lot for and about animals.

[Appleblossom]

 tears of joy sometimes

maybe ... the pigs pulled my heart strings

[CherryBomb]

@MoonGal and @Appleblossom

I've had some amazing experiencing crying with animals. My dog in particular who somehow know how to comfort me when I was. Animals have a different way of knowing, and I think they help us to know and discover certain truths about ourselves...

[Former-Member]

A little boy at my daughters school has autism and has a specially trained companion dog that will actually lay over him when he's upset and having a really hard time. He seems to know when to be close and when to sit a little bit apart. It's lovely

[Neb]

At one stage I was easily moved to tears, sometimes I felt if I could cry I would feel better.

sometimes I feel as if I can feel any happiness just literally pouring down a drainpipe, but I want to cry and can't.