Topic Tuesday // 16 Feb, 7pm AEDT // When mental illness impacts intimacy

[Former-Member]

Hi @notmyrealname, welcome to the conversation.  Thank you for posting.  It shows courage and probably demonstrates progress that you may struggle to see yourself.  Are you hoping that if you can think and talk about sexual matters than real-world contact will become more possible?  That's very likely true.

I think one of the areas that mental illness really has an impact is in this erosion of self-esteem that is coming through as a bit of a theme throughout this discussion.  Again, not solely attributable to a diagnosis but compounded by it.  The lack of self-worth makes the courage needed for new relationships - or for overcoming difficulties in existing relationship - so much harder.

[Former-Member]

Sorry to have mis-interpreted your point @Aonaran.  'Baggage' is such a huge term.  If you feel comfortable, can you 'unpack' it a bit so I understand?

[Former-Member]

@mrkotter you've reminded me of a now infamous conversation between me and my partner of 13 years from our early days.

Me:  Am I the only one thinking about sex?

Him:  Errr....actually I was wondering about dessert!

Yet somehow we blundered on.  Some people do practically need it all mapped out.  But if you're engaging in some eye contact yourself then they will hopefully be encouraged enough to persist.

[Appleblossom]

Funny about that "baggage" word. 

Mine or theirs ... an old friend came up with the idea of "equally hung" ... balanced amount of positives and negatives might help. 

My physical issues mean I have a limited abililty to deal with conflict or excitable personality types let alone those who want a lot of action.  So it would def be separate beds .. maybe even sep houses ... but I still like the idea of a special companion with whom to share affection and eroticism. 

But also resigned to being alone .. the match would have to be a good fit.

I knew a fellow who was convinced he was normal and who wanted to marry me for a while ... but he could not get over his lesser education and assets .. for others I have to sit so they seem tall ... etc ... I tried hard but really other people do have a lot of issues that they project on to us... that is their baggage.

My first psychiatrist (when I was 26) said "I had a lot of baggage" and when I asked him what that meant he just restated it with annoyance ... I really did not understand. Now I realised he actually had a duty of care to help me sift through that baggage ... but didnt really.  It was a complex situation.

I have usually been upfront about my issues ... but no longer willing to take all the blame.

[NikNik]

@Mazarita - I'm keen to know how you & your partner came up with that plan.  Were you seeing a relationship counsellor? Or did you just have an open conversation together?

Are there any tips you can share on how to start that potentially difficult conversation?

It sounds like something that might be helpful for @BlueBay and many others.

[Aonaran]

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@mrkotter wrote:

Now feeling better I want to open up. I'm finding it hard just have such a distorted view on self-image resulting from the illness. I can't reconcile myself with the idea that someone might actually like me. So any signal I do get I discount at the time only to recognise what they were meaning later on, usually at the psychologist's office. 

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Greetings @mrkotter,

Mate I can relate so strongly to what you've shared.  I find in myself that it's so easy to become overwhelmed with everything that's "wrong" with me (even though I try really hard to frame it as "It's not what's wrong, it's just what's so") that I lose any sense of what's "right", or if that even exists.  Why the flip would anyone see anything good in me?

I really wish I had a productive answer, and not just for myself! 😉  I have the feeling that any answer might lie in just trusting people to take care of themselves, and if they seem to show interest even in talking to me, to trust that as a choice they've made.  My tendency is to feel like I must have somehow conned them into seeing me positively, and they'll find out "the truth" all too soon -- because, broadly speaking, that's what has always happened.  And trusting people has become so hard.  But perhaps that's all part of the point @Former-Member made, that it's just what happens in life, MI or not.  If that's true, I frankly wish I'd gotten on a different ride! 😉

[Former-Member]

'Equally hung' baggage is a great term @Appleblossom!  I wonder if I can push it further and propose 'complementary baggage'.  Could it be that one day you'll meet someone whose life experiences are so different that the marks they have left are the yin to your yang. 

Too much optimism?

[Mazarita]

@NikNik, my partner and I have never had relationship counselling. He is one of those people who is just not interested in that kind of thing. I'm the 'analytical' one in our relationship and the one who seeks help for personal matters outside of the private domain. I do sometimes think we might benefit from sexual counselling of some kind but I'm also very nervous about 'scratching open scabs', that it might just lead to further traumatisation. I really do wonder though how to effectively deal with the feeling that we have traumatised each other on this fundamental level of intimacy. Having come from a domestic violence childhood, it does sometimes feel like we have physically beaten each other up in the past and on the most tender and vulnerable level. Are there ways relationships ever really recover from that kind of thing?

In terms of how we came to communicate about this subject at all, I just am not the kind of person who can go on forever having sex with someone and feeling that bad about it. Sadly, it first came out in very messy and traumatic ways and there was therefore no denying it. I think @BlueBay is on track for a much better outcome because she seems to be thinking carefully about how to talk about the subject in a sensitive way. I was probably too mentally unwell at the time it was happening to do this and we both suffered for that. I guess if I had the chance to do it over again, I would wait until I was in as calm a state as possible, tell my partner that there was something important I needed to talk about and wait until he was also ready to engage seriously and calmly with it. Then I would be very, very mindful about the delicacy of feelings for both of us around this.

[Former-Member]

Beautifully eloquent @Aonaran.  That idea that that someone 'will find out the truth' is frighteningly common.  I had it professionally until about.....yesterday!  No, not really.  At some point you notice that you haven't wondered recently when someone is going to tap you on the shoulder and say 'sorry, made a mistake'.

When you're all caught up in self-doubt, do you ever wonder what's going on for them?  'Cos it's almost certain that they are in the throes of a confidence crisis too.  You'd have to be a robot not to be at the start.  So giving them a little glimpse of your vulnerability (even just stating how nervous and uncertain you are) can cut through the pretense and allow you both to relax and be real.  A bit more anyway.

[Former-Member]

Just dropping something in there for any women concerned about their lack of libido.  I saw an episode of Catalyst last year in which the presenter wanted to explore how to fix her own waning sex drive.  She also felt less responsive during sex.  So she started to take a low doses of testosterone (a cream rubbed into her thigh) which made a difference.  So much so that she decided to keep doing it beyond the research/filming.

So there are physical solutions to consider as well.  As much as I make my living from it, not all problems reside solely in the mind.